From settles@mppmu.mpg.de Sun Feb 18 07:31:55 2007
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:29:26 +0100 (CET)
From: Ronald Dean Settles <settles@mppmu.mpg.de>
To: LC-TPC@desy.de
Cc: LCTPC CB/TB combined list -- 'Keisuke FUJII' <keisuke.fujii@kek.jp>,
A.F.Buzulutskov@inp.nsk.su, alexander.kaukher@desy.de,
Anatoliy Krivchitch <kriv@pnpi.spb.ru>, Ariane Frey <ariane@mail.cern.ch>,
bamberg@physik.uni-freiburg.de, Dan Peterson <dpp@mail.lns.cornell.edu>,
David Nygren <drnygren@lbl.gov>, Dean Karlen <karlen@uvic.ca>,
desch@physik.uni-bonn.de, Harry van der Graaf <vdgraaf@nikhef.nl>,
henning.schroeder@physik.uni-rostock.de,
Ivor Fleck <fleck@hep.physik.uni-siegen.de>, jan.timmermans@nikhef.nl,
Joachim.Mnich@cern.ch, jpmartin@lps.umontreal.ca,
Klaus Dehmelt <dehmelt@mail.desy.de>,
Leif Jonsson <leif.jonsson@hep.lu.se>, lepeltier@lal.in2p3.fr,
Luciano.Musa@cern.ch, Lucie.Linssen@cern.ch,
Madhu Dixit <msd@physics.carleton.ca>, Michael.Hauschild@cern.ch,
Paul.Colas@cea.fr, Peter Schade <pschade@mail.desy.de>,
Peter Wienemann <wienemann@physik.uni-bonn.de>, rickv@fnal.gov,
sawyer@phys.latech.edu, Stefan.Roth <Stefan.Roth@physik.rwth-aachen.de>,
Sugiyama Akira <sugiyama@cc.saga-u.ac.jp>,
Takeshi Matsuda <takeshi.matsuda@kek.jp>, ties.behnke@desy.de,
Y Gao <gaoyn@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn>, rolf-dieter.heuer@desy.de
Subject: Summary: 21st LP WP phonemeeting
Dear TPC friends,
Here is a draft summary of last Wednesday's phonemeeting.
One point marked by => below is important, but I overlooked mentioning
it at our meeting. Otherwies, just let me know if I forgot something...
Greetings,
Ron
21st WP meeting 14/2/2007
--------------------------------------------
Agenda:
--------------
1. Beijing news
-a. Cost of ILC
-b. Beijing tracking review
2. WP meeting
-a. LP1: input from Dan.
-b. Decision on the LP1 electronics: Leif Joennson
3. AOB
-a. ILC TPC analysis jamboree 14-16 March in Aachen.
-b. Ralf has produced an LCTPC logo.
-c. What else?
Present:
--David Attie
--Ties Behnke
--Paul Colas
--Klaus Dehmelt
--Klaus Desch
--Ralf Diener
--Madhu Dixit
--Keisuke Fujii
--Katsumasa Ikematsu
--Leif Joensson
--Dean Karlen
--Martin Killenberg
--Jean-Pierre Martin
--Takeshi Matsuda
--Dan Peterson
--Oliver Schaefer
--Ron Settles
--Jan Timmermans
...anyone forgotten?
Summary
--------------
1. Beijing news
-a. Cost of ILC
Costs in billion ILCU (ILC Units, psychologically chosen to show
that the costing was done internationally, where 1 ILCU = 1 $)
Shared Costs 4.9 BILCU
Site Specific 1.8 BILCU
Manpower 130 person-centuries
For comparison, the 2001 Tesla TDR figures, renormalized to 2007 money,
were roughly
Shared and Site 5.1 BILCU
Manpower 70 person-centuries
The increase is due to 2-tunnels in a deeper site and some other
things still being understood...
-b. Beijing tracking review
The "final" version of the written report is at
http://mppmu.mpg.de/~settles/trackingreview05022007-21.pdf
As you know we had 5 presentations in the open session on 5Feb.:
-Ron Settles: Introduction (see
http://mppmu.mpg.de/~settles/TrackingreviewTPCtalk.pdf)
followed by 4 talks on R&D results and plans (RS is setting up a web page
for the LCTPC talks, for now, see
http://ilcagenda.linearcollider.org/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=1319)
-Dan Peterson: R&D status MWPC, GEM, software
-Madhu Dixit: R&D status Micromegas, resistive foil, standard-electronics
-Jan Timmermans: R&D CMOS pixel TPC
-Takeshi Matsuda: R&D plans
This was followed by closed sessions on 6Feb. and 8Feb.
These sessions resulted in lists of questions which were attached to the
agenda. These lists are to be answered in 1 week after which the
tracking-review panel will submit its written recommendations. The
questions are being worked on and have been circulated to the CB/TB
members for iterations.
One of these questions has to do with occupancy which was
actally discussed at the beginning of our phonemeeting:
a few of us (Dan, Ron, Madhu) have calculated the occupancy in the
TPC due to backgrounds. This depends
on the TPC model for how many voxels are occupied by a "hit"
and the machine configuration used. Dan gets
0.7% occupancy based on Adrian Vogel's Vienna talk, Ron gets
0.3% based on Adrian's 14mrad-antiDID calculation, and Madhu
gets about 1% based on Adrian's Valencia talk. These differences
will be discussed offline between these three and hopefully
understood by the next phonemeeting in two weeks.
Further comments at our phonemeeting: Ties said the tracking review
pointed up the lack of work on the very-forward tracking. He also
thought that there was a kind of "shoot-out" sentiment in the course
of the review; Dean (who is one of the reviewers) thought that this
was not the case, saying the main points were power-pulsing in
a 4T field and material budget of the endcap. One of the recommendations
in the panel's written report will probably be to study the feasibility
of having a large-bore 4T magnet and a test beam which
mimics the ILC time structure (which Fermilab is looking into).
Takeshi asked about the consequences of the panel's report on
our planning , e.g. should we start working on defining the LP2
tests at Fermilab; Ron thought we should solve LP1 first and look
at LP2 later; Ties thought that we first should wait on the
review-panel's written report and then decide how to proceed.
=> The closed session on 8Feb included a proposal by the
tracking-review committee: namely that the horizontal R&D collaborations
each appoint 2 members for a bi-weekly telephone meeting between the
groups to exchange information about the status of the R&D efforts. Ron
said that we still have our hands full getting our overall effort
organized, and that an extra meeting would be counter-productive at the
moment. The review committee (Chris) said setting up such a bi-weekly
meeting would take a couple of months anyway, at which point we said that
in a couple of months such a thing might be more realistic.
Finally, a VERY preliminary version of the LCTPC/LP finances was
discussed among several of us at Beijing and was sent to Chris as
top-secret information. It is top secret because we still hadn't heard
from all of the groups and Jan wanted to provide more details about Eudet
funding (which he has now done). However, the basic message of this
information was clear: we need more money! Chris promised to be
absolutely discrete while relaying this basic message to the funding
authorities. Meanwhile, the CB/TB members will be producing a more
complete list of the groups' money/manpower situations during the next
few weeks.
2. WP meeting
-a. LP1: input from Dan a couple of weeks ago:
"New sketches of the evolving endplate and field cage
geometry are posted on the usual web page:
http://w4.lns.cornell.edu/~dpp/linear_collider/LargePrototype.html ,
dated 17-January-2007,30-January-2007,31-January-2007."
The 7 panel endplate was discussed and looks rather good.
Takeshi said that CDC is preparing a pre-prototype panel.
Klaus Desch asked whether the panel size would allow
testing in the 5T magnet, and an arousing discussion
ensued, mainly as to whether such a function is needed or not,
since the present panel size it too large for the 5T magnet (which
has a bore of 27.5mm). Dan said that he is organized for adaptivity
such that he can change the size of the panels rather easily, and that he
would see what a smaller size compatible with 27.5 mm would look like.
The discussion will continue next phonemeeting in 2 weeks.
-b. Decision on the LP1 electronics: Leif Joennson
Leif said that we should decide on the DAQ for LP1 soon,
and that the most pragmatic solution will be to use the Alice
DAQ system. For information, Leif and other Lund people visited
Copenhagen where an Alice DAQ system is running reliably.
Leif said that given that only 1 person from Lund (within their
Eudet obligations) is working on the LP1 DAQ, then this
seems to be the only resonable way to go, since in
case of problems, help can be gotten from Copenhagen.
Klaus ask whether the choice allows U2F,etc for tests and Leif
thought there should be no problem. Ties suggested we get the relevant
documentation from Alice.
3. AOB
-a. ILC TPC analysis jamboree 14-16 March in Aachen, see
http://ilcagenda.linearcollider.org/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=1326
Paul said that many talks have already been proposed.
-b. Ralf has produced an LCTPC logo! Take a look at
http://www.desy.de/~rdiener/logo/
-c. Madhu brought up the point about off-the-shelf components
for the LCTPC electronics. Jean-Pierre suggested that we need a dedicated
electronics meeting to discuss this and other issues. We decided to
earmark next Tuesday for an electronics phonemeeting: an announcement will
follow.