From settles@mppmu.mpg.de Sun Feb 18 07:31:55 2007 Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:29:26 +0100 (CET) From: Ronald Dean Settles To: LC-TPC@desy.de Cc: LCTPC CB/TB combined list -- 'Keisuke FUJII' , A.F.Buzulutskov@inp.nsk.su, alexander.kaukher@desy.de, Anatoliy Krivchitch , Ariane Frey , bamberg@physik.uni-freiburg.de, Dan Peterson , David Nygren , Dean Karlen , desch@physik.uni-bonn.de, Harry van der Graaf , henning.schroeder@physik.uni-rostock.de, Ivor Fleck , jan.timmermans@nikhef.nl, Joachim.Mnich@cern.ch, jpmartin@lps.umontreal.ca, Klaus Dehmelt , Leif Jonsson , lepeltier@lal.in2p3.fr, Luciano.Musa@cern.ch, Lucie.Linssen@cern.ch, Madhu Dixit , Michael.Hauschild@cern.ch, Paul.Colas@cea.fr, Peter Schade , Peter Wienemann , rickv@fnal.gov, sawyer@phys.latech.edu, Stefan.Roth , Sugiyama Akira , Takeshi Matsuda , ties.behnke@desy.de, Y Gao , rolf-dieter.heuer@desy.de Subject: Summary: 21st LP WP phonemeeting Dear TPC friends, Here is a draft summary of last Wednesday's phonemeeting. One point marked by => below is important, but I overlooked mentioning it at our meeting. Otherwies, just let me know if I forgot something... Greetings, Ron 21st WP meeting 14/2/2007 -------------------------------------------- Agenda: -------------- 1. Beijing news -a. Cost of ILC -b. Beijing tracking review 2. WP meeting -a. LP1: input from Dan. -b. Decision on the LP1 electronics: Leif Joennson 3. AOB -a. ILC TPC analysis jamboree 14-16 March in Aachen. -b. Ralf has produced an LCTPC logo. -c. What else? Present: --David Attie --Ties Behnke --Paul Colas --Klaus Dehmelt --Klaus Desch --Ralf Diener --Madhu Dixit --Keisuke Fujii --Katsumasa Ikematsu --Leif Joensson --Dean Karlen --Martin Killenberg --Jean-Pierre Martin --Takeshi Matsuda --Dan Peterson --Oliver Schaefer --Ron Settles --Jan Timmermans ...anyone forgotten? Summary -------------- 1. Beijing news -a. Cost of ILC Costs in billion ILCU (ILC Units, psychologically chosen to show that the costing was done internationally, where 1 ILCU = 1 $) Shared Costs 4.9 BILCU Site Specific 1.8 BILCU Manpower 130 person-centuries For comparison, the 2001 Tesla TDR figures, renormalized to 2007 money, were roughly Shared and Site 5.1 BILCU Manpower 70 person-centuries The increase is due to 2-tunnels in a deeper site and some other things still being understood... -b. Beijing tracking review The "final" version of the written report is at http://mppmu.mpg.de/~settles/trackingreview05022007-21.pdf As you know we had 5 presentations in the open session on 5Feb.: -Ron Settles: Introduction (see http://mppmu.mpg.de/~settles/TrackingreviewTPCtalk.pdf) followed by 4 talks on R&D results and plans (RS is setting up a web page for the LCTPC talks, for now, see http://ilcagenda.linearcollider.org/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=1319) -Dan Peterson: R&D status MWPC, GEM, software -Madhu Dixit: R&D status Micromegas, resistive foil, standard-electronics -Jan Timmermans: R&D CMOS pixel TPC -Takeshi Matsuda: R&D plans This was followed by closed sessions on 6Feb. and 8Feb. These sessions resulted in lists of questions which were attached to the agenda. These lists are to be answered in 1 week after which the tracking-review panel will submit its written recommendations. The questions are being worked on and have been circulated to the CB/TB members for iterations. One of these questions has to do with occupancy which was actally discussed at the beginning of our phonemeeting: a few of us (Dan, Ron, Madhu) have calculated the occupancy in the TPC due to backgrounds. This depends on the TPC model for how many voxels are occupied by a "hit" and the machine configuration used. Dan gets 0.7% occupancy based on Adrian Vogel's Vienna talk, Ron gets 0.3% based on Adrian's 14mrad-antiDID calculation, and Madhu gets about 1% based on Adrian's Valencia talk. These differences will be discussed offline between these three and hopefully understood by the next phonemeeting in two weeks. Further comments at our phonemeeting: Ties said the tracking review pointed up the lack of work on the very-forward tracking. He also thought that there was a kind of "shoot-out" sentiment in the course of the review; Dean (who is one of the reviewers) thought that this was not the case, saying the main points were power-pulsing in a 4T field and material budget of the endcap. One of the recommendations in the panel's written report will probably be to study the feasibility of having a large-bore 4T magnet and a test beam which mimics the ILC time structure (which Fermilab is looking into). Takeshi asked about the consequences of the panel's report on our planning , e.g. should we start working on defining the LP2 tests at Fermilab; Ron thought we should solve LP1 first and look at LP2 later; Ties thought that we first should wait on the review-panel's written report and then decide how to proceed. => The closed session on 8Feb included a proposal by the tracking-review committee: namely that the horizontal R&D collaborations each appoint 2 members for a bi-weekly telephone meeting between the groups to exchange information about the status of the R&D efforts. Ron said that we still have our hands full getting our overall effort organized, and that an extra meeting would be counter-productive at the moment. The review committee (Chris) said setting up such a bi-weekly meeting would take a couple of months anyway, at which point we said that in a couple of months such a thing might be more realistic. Finally, a VERY preliminary version of the LCTPC/LP finances was discussed among several of us at Beijing and was sent to Chris as top-secret information. It is top secret because we still hadn't heard from all of the groups and Jan wanted to provide more details about Eudet funding (which he has now done). However, the basic message of this information was clear: we need more money! Chris promised to be absolutely discrete while relaying this basic message to the funding authorities. Meanwhile, the CB/TB members will be producing a more complete list of the groups' money/manpower situations during the next few weeks. 2. WP meeting -a. LP1: input from Dan a couple of weeks ago: "New sketches of the evolving endplate and field cage geometry are posted on the usual web page: http://w4.lns.cornell.edu/~dpp/linear_collider/LargePrototype.html , dated 17-January-2007,30-January-2007,31-January-2007." The 7 panel endplate was discussed and looks rather good. Takeshi said that CDC is preparing a pre-prototype panel. Klaus Desch asked whether the panel size would allow testing in the 5T magnet, and an arousing discussion ensued, mainly as to whether such a function is needed or not, since the present panel size it too large for the 5T magnet (which has a bore of 27.5mm). Dan said that he is organized for adaptivity such that he can change the size of the panels rather easily, and that he would see what a smaller size compatible with 27.5 mm would look like. The discussion will continue next phonemeeting in 2 weeks. -b. Decision on the LP1 electronics: Leif Joennson Leif said that we should decide on the DAQ for LP1 soon, and that the most pragmatic solution will be to use the Alice DAQ system. For information, Leif and other Lund people visited Copenhagen where an Alice DAQ system is running reliably. Leif said that given that only 1 person from Lund (within their Eudet obligations) is working on the LP1 DAQ, then this seems to be the only resonable way to go, since in case of problems, help can be gotten from Copenhagen. Klaus ask whether the choice allows U2F,etc for tests and Leif thought there should be no problem. Ties suggested we get the relevant documentation from Alice. 3. AOB -a. ILC TPC analysis jamboree 14-16 March in Aachen, see http://ilcagenda.linearcollider.org/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=1326 Paul said that many talks have already been proposed. -b. Ralf has produced an LCTPC logo! Take a look at http://www.desy.de/~rdiener/logo/ -c. Madhu brought up the point about off-the-shelf components for the LCTPC electronics. Jean-Pierre suggested that we need a dedicated electronics meeting to discuss this and other issues. We decided to earmark next Tuesday for an electronics phonemeeting: an announcement will follow.