From settles@mppmu.mpg.de Mon Mar 5 07:55:45 2007 Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 07:54:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ronald Dean Settles To: A.F.Buzulutskov@inp.nsk.su, ack@mppmu.mpg.de, adrian.vogel@desy.de, alainb@physics.carleton.ca, anders.oskarsson@hep.lu.se, Andreas.Imhof@desy.de, araki@hep.phys.saga-u.ac.jp, ariane@mppmu.mpg.de, Astrid.Muennich@physik.rwth-aachen.de, bacala@msuiit.edu.ph, bamberg@physik.uni-freiburg.de, becker@lns.mit.edu, Bernhard.Ketzer@cern.ch, bjorn.lundberg@hep.lu.se, bolla@purdue.edu, bondar@inp.nsk.su, boudjeml@physics.carleton.ca, buchholz@hep.physik.uni-siegen.de, chefdevi@nikhef.nl, cizeron@lal.in2p3.fr, csimonet@e18.physik.tu-muenchen.de, david.attie@cea.fr, dburke@cea.fr, delagne@hep.saclay.cea.fr, dennis@physics.msuiit.edu.ph, desch@physik.uni-bonn.de, dpp@lepp.cornell.edu, DRNygren@lbl.gov, dz99@mails.tsinghua.edu.cn, eferrer@hep.saclay.cea.fr, evert.stenlund@hep.lu.se, felix.stoever@desy.de, fleck@hep.physik.uni-siegen.de, fujishima@hep.phys.saga-u.ac.jp, gaoyn@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, ghodbane@mppmu.mpg.de, giganon@dapnia.cea.fr, hansen@uvic.ca, he-jb02@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, henning.schroeder@physik.uni-rostock.de, hhwieman@lbl.gov, higashi@hep.phys.saga-u.ac.jp, hiroshi.yamaoka@kek.jp, Igor.Konorov@cern.ch, ioa@hep.saclay.cea.fr, jan.timmermans@nikhef.nl, jia-liu05@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, Joachim.Mnich@cern.ch, jochen.kaminski@iekp.fzk.de, jpmartin@lps.umontreal.ca, jun@physics.msuiit.edu.ph, kadomatsu@hep.phys.saga-u.ac.jp, kaoukher@mail.desy.de, karlen@uvic.ca, katoy@hep.kindai.ac.jp, Katsumasa.Ikematsu@desy.de, keisuke.fujii@kek.jp, key-ichi@cc.tuat.ac.jp, killenberg@physik.rwth-aachen.de, Klaus Dehmelt , kriv@pnpi.spb.ru, krzysztof.komar@desy.de, kuroiwa@vbl.hiroshima-u.ac.jp, lai-yf@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, lea.hallermann@desy.de, ledermann@iekp.fzk.de, leif.jonsson@hep.lu.se, lennart.osterman@hep.lu.se, lepeltier@lal.in2p3.fr, liuyinong@tsinghua.edu.cn, ljf26@lepp.cornell.edu, lotze@physik.rwth-aachen.de, Luciano.Musa@cern.ch, Lucie.Linssen@cern.ch, luqin99@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, makoto.kobayashi.exp@kek.jp, Markus.Ball@desy.de, matthias.enno.janssen@desy.de, Michael.Hauschild@cern.ch, Michael.Weber@physik.rwth-aachen.de, Michael.Ziolkowski@uni-siegen.de, msd@physics.carleton.ca, nitoh@cc.tuat.ac.jp, oliver.schaefer@desy.de, Paul.Colas@cea.fr, pof@uvic.ca, ponyisi@lepp.cornell.edu, pouthas@ipno.in2p3.fr, pschade@mail.desy.de, qweitzel@e18.physik.tu-muenchen.de, rabrams@fnal.gov, ralf.diener@desy.de, renz@mail.desy.de, rickv@fnal.gov, rolf-dieter.heuer@desy.de, rose@physics.msuiit.edu.ph, rosierph@ipno.in2p3.fr, rsg@lepp.cornell.edu, rulikowska@novell.ftj.agh.edu.pl, rwurth@mail.desy.de, sachio.komamiya@cern.ch, sachs@physics.carleton.ca, satoru@icepp.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp, serban@nipne.ro, shipsey@purdue.edu, sliu@physics.carleton.ca, smirnoff@star.physics.yale.edu, sneubert@e18.physik.tu-muenchen.de, sorina.popescu@cern.ch, spopescu@nipne.ro, Stefan.Roth@physik.rwth-aachen.de, Steffen.Kappler@cern.ch, Stephan.Paul@ph.tum.de, sugiyama@hep.phys.saga-u.ac.jp, takashi@map.kogakuin.ac.jp, takeshi.matsuda@kek.jp, tanaka@hep.phys.saga-u.ac.jp, Thomas.Muller@phys.uni-karlsruhe.de, ties.behnke@desy.de, Tina.Huber@gmx.net, titov@mail.desy.de, tohru-takahashi@hiroshima-u.ac.jp, ulf.mjornmark@hep.lu.se, uli.lynen@arcor.de, vdgraaf@nikhef.nl, vincent.hedberg@hep.lu.se, voe@mppmu.mpg.de, walkowiak@hep.physik.uni-siegen.de, werthenbach@deph.physik.uni-siegen.de, y4644114@gc.tuat.ac.jp, yamaguchi@asanolab.bk.tsukuba.ac.jp, yamamoto@hep.phys.saga-u.ac.jp, yiwang@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, yueq@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, yulanli@mail.tsinghua.edu.cn, zerguer@ipno.in2p3.fr Subject: 28/02/2007 WP meeting#23 Summary Dear TPC friends, Here is a summary of Wednesday's meeting. Let me know if there are corrections or typos... Cheers, Ron WP#23 28/02/2007 -------------------------------------------- Present: --David Attie --Paul Colas --Klaus Desch --Ralf Diener --Madhu Dixit --Lea Hallermann --Katsumasa Ikematsu --Dean Karlen --Sascha Kaukher --Vincent Lepeltier --Takeshi Matsuda --Anders Oskarsson --Dan Peterson --Peter Schade --Oliver Schaefer --Frank Senee --Ron Settles --Jan Timmermans --Adrian Vogel ...anyone forgotten? Summary -------------------- 1. News a. Our tracking-review is finished and we are now awaiting the review-panel's recommendations. There is a lot of work, left lying during that episode, to catch up on: -"Project List LP TPC, version 4" which contains several items not yet covered. -Finances and manpower situation. -Finish the formation of our LCTPC collaboration, e.g., steering-, editorial-, speaker's-committees. b. The WWSOC has been given the madate by ICFA to initiate the process for converging from four concepts to two ILC detectors. The timescale for this transition is under (intensive) discussion. 2. Electronics discussion. a. As a reminder, the meeting on 20/02/2007 resulted in the following conclusion about the LP electronics (the summary of that meeting contains more details): --The status of the Jean-Pierre's set up at Montreal was reviewed. --Further studies of the positioning of the read-out boards had been done in Lund and the drawings were presented by Anders. The conclusion is that up to 30 cm cable length is needed in order to accommodate the most extreme pad area geometries we can imagine. Luciano said that this is comparable with the situation in ALICE so it should be feasible. (It is also comparable with Aleph.) --Luciano informed that the submission of the second iteration of the preamplifier will occur in May such that the delivery can be expected at the end of the summer. The situation concerning the ALTRO chip is that we possibly may profit from the production to the STAR experiment. These chips will be tested in Lund and if the failure rate is low there may be enough chips to meet our needs. The chips are the 25 MHz version --Luciano explained that it is not necessary to adopt the full ALICE DAQ system for the TPC test set-up, but a down-scaled system could be used. It was decided to have this system as the primary option and that people interested to contribute should attend a tutorial at CERN 29-30 March. b. Discussions continued at Cern on 24/02/2007, on the occasion of Takeshi's visit to Cern. --Luciano, Takeshi and Ron met in the morning with team of students designing the first LCTPC-electronics iteration: Gerd Trampisch, Hugo Franca Santos and Attiq Ur Rehman who explained some details of their simulation work. A postdoc from Tsinghua, Zhi Deng, is also interested in joining this effort and arrangements are being worked out for a first visit. --In the afternoon they met with Pierre Vande Vyvre, the Alice DAQ coordinator. After an overview of the LP/LCTPC effort and LP milestones, several aspects of the Alice electronics/DAQ and details related to the LP/LCTPC project were reviewed. The phonemeeting summarized by Leif (above under 2a) had taken place and those points were part of the discussion. The goal of having a system of between 2 and 10 thousand channels by the end of the year is tight but realistic. Luciano proposed that we try to decide by end March on the number of channels, and Ron will ask about the financial requirements (beyond Eudet) from the LCTPC groups (Japan, Bonn, Saclay, e.g., have mentioned possiblities). A scaled-down version of the Alice DAQ is proposed by Leif as the way for Lund to proceed for hammering out the LPTPC DAQ; the tutorial at CERN 29-30 March mentioned above will be an important step, after which the LPTPC groups can have a better idea as to which components will be necessary. c. Dan is set up to iterate on different-sized panels but has no new input yet. 3. Other LP input a. B-map for PCMAG. At Cern on Thursday evening, discussions with Michael and Luci about field-mapping the PCMAG gave the following picture: --Luci+colleague (from the Atlas B-map team) will be in Desy this Friday 2March to work on the details with Tobias Haas (JRA1). The field mapping will probably be done at the end of June, but this will be decided after the Desy meeting. --A new type of Hall plate might be used. --Takeshi pointed out that the PCMAG end-flange has been modified as compared with earlier drawings. In principle their B-gear will be supported independently outside of PCMAG, but they will need a reference, so the end-flange may be important. Therefore Takeshi, Katsumasa and whoever else will be working on this (send Luci, Tobias and Takeshi a mail if you want to be included) should be in on the plans. --Mechanical details of the mapping are being worked out, but the analysis is still not covered. Michael suggested it would be a good project for a student's thesis. Michael will talk with the Atlas magnet people to see if they have any possibilities. b. Before this summary was ready to circulate, Luci's visit to Desy took place; Peter Schade's description of that meeting is included here for completeness: Dear TPC friends, As you know today Lucie Linssen and Marcello Losasso from CERN visited our group. We discussed the field mapping procedure which will take place in July. For the measurement they will prepare a special device which will move a couple of Hall plates stepwise through the magnet's volume. For the preparation they need to know in advance to which accuracy we need the field to be measured and with which step-width they can move the plates through the volume. They estimated the best accuracy they can do to be (4-5)*10E-4. The step-width depends on what we want. Another question is whether we want the field to be mapped at different currents. I think as there is no yoke or other iron around, we do not expect any saturation effects, so the field should always be proportional to the current and it is not necessary to measure the field twice. Finally the question came up whether we only want the field to be mapped in the usable volume or do we want some further measurment outside in front of the magnet. Of course they need the numbers as soon as possible. I promised to come up with numbers in the 11th week (12-18 march), so we can have a discussion at the next phonemeeting on 12 or 13 March. Cheers, Peter Schade c. Aurore has contacted us with names of SiLC persons who will be working on the LP. Klaus Dehmelt will be the contact from the LCTPC side, report on progress with them and decide when they should be invited to our meetings. d. Madhu described the possibility of using a 2T magnet at Triumf which will become available at the end of this year. It is pretty big (1m diameter, 2.23m length) with an iron yoke for field homogeniety. The discussion led to the following ideas: In addition to our LP program at the Eudet facility, there is the SP work going on in several groups. One of the SP tests mentioned is to measure the perfomance of an MPGD prototype with and without resistive anode in a jet environment. For such a measurement, Fermilab was looked into by Madhu and Ron at the January Testbeam Meeting at Fermilab, where testbeamsare being geared up to LC detector work. They (Fermilab) were positive towards this suggestion, but a missing item was the magnet, for which the 2T Triumf magnet would then be a candidate. Now a few words must be said about the longer term: There is thinking along the lines of doing the LP2 (a real prototype for the LCTPC) tests in 2010 using a still-to-be-organized 4T magnet in a Fermilab testbeam with a still-to-be-organized ILC beam-train structure, which would mean moving the Eudet facility to Fermilab; this is only in the discussion stage at the moment and no decisions have been taken. That is a few years down the line, and in the meantime SP tests at Fermilab as described above might be carried out. The effort of moving the 2T magnet from Triumf to Fermilab is of course non-trivial, so the motivation would have to be solid. Performance tests in a jet environment of an SP with resistive anode and of an SP without resistive anode may or may not be justification enough, and feedback about other possibilities from the LCTPC groups would be welcome (send an email to Madhu and Ron). 4. AOB a. The suggestion is that we hold an LCTPC Collaboration meeting at Desy on 29 May, the day before LCWS07 starts. This idea was accepted positively at the phonemeeting, so the proposal will be circulated to the groups (we have to be sure of avoiding conflicts with other meetings). b. The occupancy issue was discussed briefly between Dan, Madhu, Ron and Adrian. Madhu's original estimate of about 1% should be scaled down by a factor of 7, it seems, but we still need more work to understand this calculation better. This we will try to do this during the next couple of weeks. c. The status of TPC Analysis Jamboree at Aachen 14-16 March can be seen at http://ilcagenda.linearcollider.org/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=1326 Paul reminded people to register, and in the meantime Peter has sent another email to this respect.